Tech-Savvy Language Education: The Role of Apps w/Dr. Linh Phung

From the RBERNING Questions podcast with Host Yasmeen Coaxum.

Episode Summary:

In the first episode of our TESOL 2025 Presenters Series, Dr. Linh Phung, an entrepreneur and tech enthusiast, shares her journey from Vietnam to the U.S., where she pursued her passion for English education and technology. She discusses her role at Chatham University and her ventures in developing language learning apps like Eduling Speak. The conversation dives into the benefits of using technology beyond classroom time, gamification, AI in education, and actionable tips for educators looking to start their own educational projects. Linh emphasizes the importance of finding joy in teaching and continuous learning. At the TESOL Convention this year, Linh’s presentations included “Culturally and Linguistically Inclusive Materials for Multilingual Ethnic Minority Learners” and “Empowering Language Learners Through Multilingual and Multimodal AI-Powered Texting.”

RBERNing Questions for this Episode:

1- What was the process of developing your company, “Eduling” and what tips do you have for other educators who might want to do something similar?

2- How do you think teachers should best utilize current language apps? Should they do so as a supplement to their other materials?

3- How do you think AI has contributed to the landscape of language teaching and learning, and how do you see it evolving in our field? 

Guest BIO:

Dr. Linh Phung is a language educator, researcher, and creator with a track record of directing successful educational programs and developing impactful technology applications and language learning materials. She is the Founder of the Eduling Speak app, which offers specialized English courses based on communicative tasks and games. As an author, she has published four language learning books and three children's books. As a researcher, she has her research published in high impact journals. Her professional experience also involves serving as an English Language Specialist with the U.S. Department of State in 2023 and being Chief Learning Officer of Pangea Chat.

Resources:

Websites/Social Media:

https://eduling.org/drlinhphung

https://www.eduling.org/news

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You may also listen to it HERE.

Transcript

linh-phung_1_03-06-2025_151334: 0:00

Technology in my mind expands students' learning beyond the classroom time as well because language learning is just very time consuming. It takes a long time, it takes long dedication. So no matter how many hours you have in the classroom, it's never enough. So when students get into using technology for language learning, either by listening to a YouTube video or by chatting with other people to improve their English, then I can see that it extends language learning.

Yasmeen: 0:36

Welcome to RBERNing Questions, a professional learning podcast where we answer your most compelling questions about teaching, serving, and supporting multilingual learners. I'm your host, Yasmeen Coaxum, and through our talks, I look forward to bringing the methods, philosophies, and stories behind teaching multilingual learners to light. Let's get into the show.

yasmeen_1_03-06-2025_151333: 1:06

Okay, so hello everyone and welcome to another episode of the RBERNing Questions podcast, and today we have with us Linh Phung and Linh and I are acquainted through NYS TESOL and Tesol, International. I think that we were at the conference together in Portland, and Linh is just a wonderful woman who has really been so dedicated to TESOL, and plus she's really into the tech edge of things, which, that's definitely something that I'm into as well. So I'm really excited to speak to her today about all her awesome accomplishments. So, Linh, I'm gonna just let you take it away and tell us about your current role in education.

linh-phung_1_03-06-2025_151334: 2:00

Yeah. Thank you so much Yasmeen, and hi to everyone. Now, I actually remember we were at the TESOL conference in Portland, and I was at your presentation about using podcasts for language education, and so now the memory comes back to me, but a little bit about me. I actually am originally from Vietnam. I came to the US to do my Master's in Teaching English as a Second Language, and then I ended up staying and working at a university as, the Director of the English Language Program for international students for 12 years here in Pittsburgh, at Chatham University. And then, a few years ago I started my own company and then I started developing an app. And I have always been interested in technology for language education, but it is always about promoting student second language development, second language learning, and then one thing leading to another, now I also work for another app called Pangea Chat. In a nutshell, I manage and develop or contribute to the development of two language learning apps, and I can tell you a little bit more about them, later on in the podcast.

yasmeen_1_03-06-2025_151333: 3:11

Okay, great. But what was the name of this other app?

linh-phung_1_03-06-2025_151334: 3:14

it's called Pangea Chat and it is an instant messaging platform built for language learning. It has 49 target languages and, if you are curious, I can talk more about it apart from my own app Eduling Speak.

yasmeen_1_03-06-2025_151333: 3:29

Okay, great. But let me just get the spelling of that. How do you spell the name of this app?

linh-phung_1_03-06-2025_151334: 3:33

Yeah. Pangea, if you remember means the one continent that the world used to be before it was split into the different continents. So it's P-A-N-G-E-A.

yasmeen_1_03-06-2025_151333: 3:47

Oh,

linh-phung_1_03-06-2025_151334: 3:47

Yeah.

yasmeen_1_03-06-2025_151333: 3:49

Fantastic. Okay. Yes, definitely. let's get into that a little bit later in the discussion. So the next thing that I wanna talk about is really, what inspired you to go into this field? You said originally you were in Vietnam and you decided to get your Master's in Teaching English as a Second Language. So what really sparked your interest in the field to begin with?

linh-phung_1_03-06-2025_151334: 4:18

In English education. Yes. I grew up in Vietnam, and in Vietnam you would specialize in a particular subject as early as in middle school. So when I moved to the city to be in the middle school, I took an exam and then I was placed into a course focusing on English. I specialized in English, and, uh, one thing after another, I got a prize in the National English contest, and then I could choose a university to go to without having to take the entrance exam, and so I chose English. And, since I started learning English, I just loved it because it broadened my knowledge about the world. I loved learning, so I loved reading articles. I loved listening to different songs. I learned about the different international organizations, and because I specialized in English, I wanted to go to an English speaking country to study, and that's why I came to the US to do my master's, but basically that is my journey into English education. It came from the love for English and for knowledge about the world.

yasmeen_1_03-06-2025_151333: 5:28

Okay, so taking our listeners from that, from your love of English and wanting to come to the states to, really intensely study it. and learn more about the language as well as hone your skills, how did you decide on the tech angle?

linh-phung_1_03-06-2025_151334: 5:49

The tech angle, You can think of technology as a tool, but it's also exciting. When I was in the master's program at Penn State, the Pennsylvania State University, I remember taking a course in technology in language learning, and we would learn about Second Life, if any of you is familiar with it being in this virtual world, right? But the goal is always to encourage social interaction, to encourage different opportunities for language learning, and then technology in my mind expands students learning beyond the classroom time as well because language learning is just very time consuming. It takes a long time, it takes long dedication. So no matter how many hours you have in the classroom, it's never enough. So when students get into using technology for language learning, either by listening to a YouTube video or by chatting with other people to improve their English, then I can see that it extends language learning. From then on, when I was at Chatham University, I started my, own online English classes and that was how I started Eduling. So I started by offering online English classes to bring opportunities for students from Vietnam and other countries to take English classes with me or with other American teachers. But, and I always wanted to create more opportunities for students to talk. And I thought, and some people may wanna talk to native speakers, some people may talk to tutors, but I thought an opportunity for them really is to talk among themselves, between the learners to have more, opportunities to use English. So I created the Eduling speak app, to connect learners to talk in pairs while performing a task together. And this also comes from my own research. Later on I did a Doctorate in Teaching English to Speakers of Other Languages, and I focused on task-based language teaching. So I wanted to develop an app that uses this approach that connects learners to talk in pairs while doing a task together. And that got me into technology development, or I am in today.

yasmeen_1_03-06-2025_151333: 8:12

Okay, so I like a few of the things that you said. first of all, I'm fascinated that in your master's degree program you were studying about Second Life, really like the virtual, I know this, the virtual world, right? Oh, wow. Did your masters have a focus on tech or...

linh-phung_1_03-06-2025_151334: 8:32

No, it was just a technology class, but at Penn State we focused a lot on sociocultural learning, so it's all about learning through interaction. Not all, but interaction and socialization plays such an important role in language learning. So we wanna, we wanted to look into how people interact online by being in Second Life or by playing multiplayer online video games, so that was the focus of that technology.

yasmeen_1_03-06-2025_151333: 9:01

That's, I'm jealous. I wish that we had a tech class like that in my master's degree program. Okay. a couple of other things that you said in terms of tech that I really like, is, it gives students an opportunity to practice outside of the classroom and then to, I mean, I really love this idea of extending the language through technology, and I'm glad that you brought up the Eduling app and your impetus for starting that. Now, how did you come up with the name Eduling?

linh-phung_1_03-06-2025_151334: 9:37

Oh yeah, good question because I thought hard about a name, myself and then, I thought I would combine the word education with the word linguistics. So that's why Eduling came into existence. And there's another small connection. My name is spelled as LINH and in the US people would call me Linh, but in Vietnamese it's actually Ling. So Eduling has a connection to my first name and that's how I came up with it and I like it.

yasmeen_1_03-06-2025_151333: 10:11

That's wonderful. That's like really a great story as to how you created that name. That's great. Tell us a little bit more about the app. You said a little bit about, like the task-based learning element of it, as far as students, getting together, practicing towards a goal, but I would like to know a little bit more about the courses and then you also have feedback services in your company Eduling, tell us a us little bit more.

linh-phung_1_03-06-2025_151334: 10:43

Yeah. Maybe a little bit about task-based language teaching. When I was doing my doctorate at, Anaheim University, I actually studied under Rod Ellis, one of the leading scholars in second language acquisition and task-based language teaching, and basically, it has been researched a lot and it has been talked about a lot in our field. Task-based basically is the idea that you develop students' communicative competence and English proficiency by engaging them in performing tasks. It is not about teaching linguistic forms discreetly one by one with the idea that students will be able to use them later. Here, we wanna engage them in listening to content, paying attention to meaning, communicating ideas, and through that process they may focus on form or their attention may be drawn to form. It makes sense, and it has been talked about a lot, but implementing it is difficult because it's very different from the traditional approach 'cause teachers in many different contexts may wanna just stand in front of the classroom, explain grammatical rules, explaining, vocabulary concepts, and doing a lot of exercises, the drilling exercises. So task-based is very different, but it's difficult to implement because I thought, and now I still think because of the lack of materials, so I wanted to develop a platform with a lot of tasks. I imagined it as a library of tasks, or at that time I called it a Netflix of tasks for students to complete, and so in the app, there are more than 2000 tasks, but now they are sequenced and they are grouped together into courses. Okay, so students may take a basic communication course and they may do one task at a time, or they may be preparing for the IELTS exam, and they can also take one test at a time to, to learn new language, but also to practice speaking. The app focuses on speaking and so students can talk by recording themselves and get some AI feedback, or they can talk with the AI and get feedback immediately or they can talk with another learner and then they can listen to the recording again and get some more feedback based on the recording. Apart from those kind of tasks, there are what I call input based tasks. So they may read something and do something with it, or they may listen to some content and do something with it. So that's a nutshell of some of the major features of the app.

yasmeen_1_03-06-2025_151333: 13:32

So did you present on this app, for TESOL? Now my memory's trying to come back.

linh-phung_1_03-06-2025_151334: 13:42

Okay. I can remind you I gave five presentations.

yasmeen_1_03-06-2025_151333: 13:45

Oh, I wasn't at last year's. Okay. I missed out. Okay.

linh-phung_1_03-06-2025_151334: 13:50

But I have presented about it in the sense that I share with teachers about how to develop tasks, and I also talk about mobile learning, right? Or MALL, Mobile Assisted Language Learning. Yes. I also talk about materials development a lot. So I share what I do, but I share it in a way that helps teachers to take away some ideas to implement in their classroom. So yes, I have been sharing a lot to teachers from all over the world, not just through TESOL, but through many other conferences and webinars.

yasmeen_1_03-06-2025_151333: 14:24

Okay, so how do you think that teachers should best utilize the language apps that are out there? Should they do so as a supplement to their other materials? How can they integrate it?

linh-phung_1_03-06-2025_151334: 14:41

Yeah, good question. So the app offers a lot of courses so students can learn from the courses independently, but as we know, research also shows that usually they need a coach, they need a facilitator and they also need feedback, right? So one way to use the app is to encourage students to use it independently, but also submit their assignments to you so that you can provide more feedback on their task completion. And actually, apart from the app, I have what I call the Eduling educator dashboard, and basically by creating a teacher account, you can assign the task from the app to students, and then the students can complete it. They can generate AI feedback, and then they can submit to you so that you can maybe listen to their speaking again, look at the feedback from the AI, and then supplement with your own feedback. That's what I have been using it in my own teaching. When I taught at Chatham University, I assigned some tasks for students to do on their own or in pairs, and then I gave them extra feedback. Now talking about feedback, last year at TESOL I gave a presentation about engagement with the feedback. So it's not the feedback itself that pushes students' learning, right? It is the engagement with the feedback is where learning happens because teachers may give tons of feedback, but if students do nothing with it or if they don't even read it or even engage with it, then learning is not gonna happen. So my idea is that teachers can give further feedback and make sure that the students engage with the feedback on the platform.

yasmeen_1_03-06-2025_151333: 16:30

So when you say, engage, I love this I idea because it's so true that as educators we give a ton of feedback and sometimes then we don't see any results. We've just given the feedback, we might assume that they are, that the students are reading it, taking it in, understanding it, but we don't necessarily see improvement. So when you say engagement with the feedback, can you give us an example of that?

linh-phung_1_03-06-2025_151334: 16:57

Good question. Actually, my dissertation is on engagement with task. So engagement is an interesting concept because engagement refers to action. Motivation is intention to do something, but engagement is when you actually do something. But there are more dimensions to engagement that is not just about the behavior, it is also how you feel about it. So if you wanna facilitate engagement with something, you need to think about the cognitive aspect, the effort, the strategies that students are gonna use, but also how they feel about it. Now that is still a little bit abstract, but the way I deal with it is that when I give feedback to students, sometimes I spend time in the classroom asking them, look at my feedback. Do you understand it? And then I give them time to ask questions, and then I push them to have to revise, their speaking or record it again, or I revise their writing. So I do spend the class time to make sure that they engage with my feedback.

yasmeen_1_03-06-2025_151333: 18:02

Okay. so I wanna just go back for a moment to your company, which is a really great accomplishment. Can you describe the process of developing this company and maybe talk about tips for other educators who might, you know, have the seeds for an idea for a company and want to be able to develop it as you have.

linh-phung_1_03-06-2025_151334: 18:32

Yeah, also, good question. I had this idea after I worked with a colleague who also started her own online business, and one of the reasons why I started it was also because I had so many ideas. I felt like I had so much energy that I wanted to channel it into something. And then from then on, I actually took a course, a free course from an entrepreneurship center. The course is called from Concept to Launch. And then it really pushed me to take the first action of filing for a business, which is very simple. You just complete a form. In Pennsylvania, you pay$125 and then you get it right. But that is the starting point. But then my starting point is to offer online English classes. And so I already have connections with Vietnam and that was actually a great opportunity to reconnect with parents and students and teachers in Vietnam. And if you are curious about the app development process, then I had an idea and I started talking with an IT professor who had students who got me a demo from idea to something that I could see on the phone. And then from then on, I hired people to work on it from a frontend developer and a backend developer, and then a designer, and then we just work on it piece by piece. And now I'm quite happy with the product because we have 45 courses on the app, many different topics. about 10,000 downloads, and I have over 2000 or 2,500 tasks on the app, but that is the process. But when people ask me this question, I often tell them that usually, I have this attitude of just do it. If you have an idea, then just do it. And then from one thing to another, apart from the app, I publish materials, right? I publish, an IO speaking book. I publish a Vietnamese learning activities book for kids here in the US and many other materials.

yasmeen_1_03-06-2025_151333: 20:47

Okay, so that's what I'm gonna take away from what you just said 'cause I was gonna say, what would be the number one piece of advice for someone who was considering starting a company and you said, "Well, just do it."

linh-phung_1_03-06-2025_151334: 21:01

Yes, yes.

yasmeen_1_03-06-2025_151333: 21:03

So in other words, lean into whatever your passion is, right? And then the pieces will fall together in terms of who you're meeting. So it's just making that first step mentally and then proceeding forward. Okay. That's really, that's great. So I understand that your company was also a sponsor at the Educast International Conference. And you spoke about the topic of mobile learning. So first, if you could tell our listeners a bit about this conference, actually I'm not familiar with it, the Educast Conference. So like what are the typical sessions there and who is the conference geared towards? And then I'd also like you to dive just a little bit into what you discussed in your talk about mobile learning.

linh-phung_1_03-06-2025_151334: 22:03

Yeah. Okay. the Educast International Conference, I would say, from what I know, It started from passionate people like me. So it started with maybe two teachers who have been very active in the field by sharing their knowledge through social media and different platforms. And then they wanted to do a conference and they engaged a lot of speakers from all over the world, and then, year after year, it just became better and better. This year, for example, the conference attracted 15,000 registrants, right? And yeah, registrants, it's free. It was completely free, it doesn't mean that everybody showed up.

yasmeen_1_03-06-2025_151333: 22:46

I know, but still 15, not 1500, 15,000. That's...

linh-phung_1_03-06-2025_151334: 22:52

15,000 registrants from over a hundred countries. And again, it is just because they started it and they wanted to do it well, and they wanted to do it better and better every year. And, the organizers also engaged really, I think, really passionate educators who prepared for their talks well, and who delivered them well. So that contributed to the success of the conference. The conference I think is for everyone. For anyone, but I would say it's for an international audience. It's not just geared, let's just say to the US audience. I would say there are more international audience than US audience. It originated from Egypt. One of the organizers is from Egypt, and now he lives in Saudi Arabia. So that's what I can say about the conference. And then, I got invited to speak and to sponsor the conference because I have been sharing a lot on social media as well, and maybe what I shared got some attention and we started talking and we started to collaborate. Yeah, so that, that is the conference. Yeah, I remember the third part of your question is what I talked about. So I talked about mobile assisted language learning, by reviewing research. And when you think about mobile learning, perhaps most people would think about Duolingo, right? Yeah. And then some people may still be very skeptical about the usefulness of mobile learning, but research from learners using Duolingo or Babble has shown that within, about 12 weeks of learning, and, every day through very short episodes, students actually did improve and to me it seems like the reason is that they engage in something regularly, every day, although the episode is quite short. Another takeaway is that okay, that's great, but maybe the learners that the research investigated were mostly at the beginner level. So there's still a lot of room for other applications and products to push student higher. So that's why my app at Julian speak is geared toward more higher level learners who want to learn for a particular purpose. It can be IELTS, TOEFL or preparing for another exam or performing at a higher level of language proficiency. So that's one takeaway. And another takeaway is that micro learning these days, people use their mobile device so often, so we wanna capitalize on this habit of using their mobile phone for learning purposes and in the professional field, then micro learning has become more important as well. People may wanna upskill or re-skill by taking a short course, and that's why for my app I wanna expand to other courses for teacher development also. And so I just put on a course called Developing Communicative Tasks. So if you wanna learn about task-based language teaching, you can take a course from my app. It's a very easy, convenient way of learning something. I just put another course called How to Gamify on the app with really short videos and different quizzes and different activities that you can do. And then I wanna expand from there by collaborating with teachers or, teacher educators to create more courses for people to upskill. Okay.

yasmeen_1_03-06-2025_151333: 26:30

I love, how you're upskilling, right? I love where this is going. It sounds really fantastic. You, I think some of what you were saying. about the apps is from a blog post. I read a blog post of yours. It was on your company's website and, your post was summarizing research on this topic of apps for language. And you said an estimate of the app-based language learning industry globally is$3 billion. And I was curious, does that mean this is the amount of money put into the industry? In other words, the amount allotted for research in this area, or

linh-phung_1_03-06-2025_151334: 27:20

It's the amount that people spend on subscribing to apps or paying for apps? Yes. Duolingo accounts for a big part of it. That's why it is such a popular and famous app, but there's still room for everyone else. And that's why I have Eduling Speak and I also have Pangea Chat. Not I have it, but I work, on Pangea Chat because it's different from Duolingo. It's unique in its own way.

yasmeen_1_03-06-2025_151333: 27:49

Okay. Now, you recently presented during a webinar that had over 200 attendees, right? And it was on this topic of gamification and the use of AI in language learning and your co-presenter also introduced to AI platforms that she uses in her teaching. If you could tell us a bit more about the presentation you already mentioned that you are, or you are developing or have developed a course about how teachers can gamify, but tell us a little bit more about this presentation and the two apps that Yeah. you were talking about. Okay.

linh-phung_1_03-06-2025_151334: 28:34

Yeah. we presented to teachers in Vietnam and, okay, we attracted, I don't remember how many registrants, but 200 teachers actually showed up for the webinar, and I am always blown away by teachers' enthusiasm to learn more. Yeah. yeah, we talked about gamification and basically what gamification is. Why do we gamify? Mostly, we gamify to motivate students. So that they feel like they are in this game world. They have autonomy, they have more control, they have choice, and that motivates them to learn more, to push the learning outcomes. And gamification is about using game elements in non-game contexts or activities. So think of an activity that you have, and it may not be a game, but by using game elements, you make it feel like a game. So that's what gamification is. and some elements that are common, giving points, points that always go up in the classroom. When you give grades sometimes the grades go up. Sometimes the grades go down, and when the grade is lower, it may hurt the student's motivation. But in gamification, the points always go up because you keep adding them up. And then students may jump levels or they may receive batches, or if you connect your learning to something more meaningful, more epic, then students also feel the motivation in their learning. So that's maybe my short description of gamification. I also shared with teachers about how to create specific games. When you do crossword puzzles, what platform you can use to create a crossword puzzle, how can you even gamify it even more? So if you let students work in pairs, and there's another gamification here in terms of collaboration, when they solve a crossword puzzle together. So that's what the webinar is about. and my co-presenter introduced two platforms that she has been using for AI that integrate AI I think Magic School AI and Curipod is what she mentioned.

yasmeen_1_03-06-2025_151333: 30:50

Magic School and what? What's the second one?

linh-phung_1_03-06-2025_151334: 30:56

Curipod

yasmeen_1_03-06-2025_151333: 30:56

Curipod? Can you spell this one for me?

linh-phung_1_03-06-2025_151334: 31:00

C-U-R-I-P-O-D

yasmeen_1_03-06-2025_151333: 31:05

Okay. All right. I'm always, curious about, other

linh-phung_1_03-06-2025_151334: 31:11

platforms Yeah.

yasmeen_1_03-06-2025_151333: 31:12

as well. Yeah. Okay. Alright. And did you wanna tell us a little bit about those or, actually, what I really wanna move on to is your thoughts, on AI and language learning. So how do you think that AI has really contributed to the landscape of language teaching and learning, and how do you see it evolving in our field?

linh-phung_1_03-06-2025_151334: 31:39

Yeah, good question. I don't think that anybody has a clear answer to that, but what I can say is that, AI is a productivity tool, right? So I encourage teachers and all of us to take advantage of this for our productivity. So what it means is that our tasks may be changing into something else. I don't think that it means that we're gonna be less busy. It just means that if we make use of it, then we can save time for certain things. Composing emails for example, or generating ideas for lessons. Another thing that I think is that because AI is everywhere now, so whatever applications you are using will have some elements of AI there. so when AI came out, then my app Eduling Speak immediately, integrated it so that it could give corrective feedback to students, right? And now also, students can talk with AI to solve a task, to complete a task with it. And I feel really comfortable with AI because I know about teaching, I know about learning. I don't feel intimidated by it. I always go back to some of the very basic principles of how to teach better, how to push students' learning better and then integrate. Integrate AI to achieve those outcomes. So I know maybe I'm rambling, but, my point is that I encourage teachers to explore it for their own productivity, but also to, just know that AI is gonna be integrated in a lot of the products that, you are using and are going to use.

yasmeen_1_03-06-2025_151333: 33:15

Okay. I don't think that you were rambling at all. All, I think you very thoroughly answered the question about that because you're right. It's definitely not something that anybody can have a clear answer to. It's just, based on your knowledge of it. It's kind of a prediction based on, patterns and trends and things that have been happening and how you've been using AI and how educators have been using AI, so far. I have really, enjoyed our conversation today, Linh, and I would like you to just tell our listeners where can they find information about your work? Do you have any upcoming projects?

linh-phung_1_03-06-2025_151334: 33:59

Um, yeah, so Yasmeen, thank you for the opportunity to connect with your audience. It is my pleasure to share about Eduling Speak, and you can look it up in the App Store or Google Play Store. And I actually share quite often on social media. So if you look me up on LinkedIn, I share some ideas there on Facebook also, I actually, I am more active on Facebook. And I also post very short blog posts on my website. So if you go to Eduling.org/news, I share some of the ideas and some summaries of research there, and I hope to connect with you there.

yasmeen_1_03-06-2025_151333: 34:41

Fantastic. So I'm just going to ask you the final question that all of our guests are, nice enough to answer, and that is what RBERNing question should today's educators consider in order to improve their service to the ELL and ML community?

linh-phung_1_03-06-2025_151334: 34:58

Yeah, that's a good question. And I know that we are dealing with a lot of challenges in terms of the political rhetoric as well as the funding for multilingual education, and so I think maybe keep finding joy in what you are doing. Keep pursuing the passion, and for me, the passion is language learning. And one of the best things that I think I started doing is to learn a new language. Right now I'm learning Spanish on Pangea Chat and I find so much joy in it, and I find the meaning in the work as well. So what I hope for you is to, keep learning and to find the joy in your work and believe in it by the bigger meaning in the work.

yasmeen_1_03-06-2025_151333: 35:44

Okay, ladies and gentlemen, so what is my joy or how can I find joy in what I'm doing with the ELL and ML community of students? Alright, so thank you so much for your time today, Linh Phung ladies and gentlemen. We appreciate everything that you are contributing to this profession and to this community.

linh-phung_1_03-06-2025_151334: 36:15

Thank you so much.

Yasmeen: 36:20

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